panorama software,virtual tour software
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Joined: 2002-04-29
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2003-02-07
#1

Portrait or Landscape it is the question?

Hello forum,

    First off I have not been able to use my upgrade to Panoweaver 3.01. I try to enter my serial number and unlock key info and it crashes my windows XP. If I try to move the requester info window from infront of the splash window it crashes my computer. If I select cancel and enter the program under the trial use state and choose to enter the unlock info..it crashes my computer. With that said if I had been able to use my new version I probably woudn't have to ask this question but since I have only been able to read the manual here it goes!
           I have been importing my shots from my 990
into panoweaver 2.4 and happily stiching them from being shot in the Landscape orientation. I was using a non- mentionalble companies bracket becouse the bogen bracket I was using looked like an aircraft carrier in the bottom of my panos....Coudn't come close to covering with a cap! I am
contemplating purcashing the Kaiden head which orients the camera in the portrait mode with the rightside of the frame being the top or ceiling of the photo. When loading into Panoweaver I see that there is a Kaiden rotation box to auto
rotate the photos shot with that bracket upon importation. Please correct my logic here but if you rotate what appears to be a correctly orientated "portrait" shot 1:2 to a landscape shot 2:1 your top or ceiling of the fish eye image will rotate to the side and not be in correct orientation for stiching? What am I missing here? I am a hands on individual and maybe if you could help me with problem one I could figure out my dilema on problem number 2. By the way feel free to have a good chuckle at my expense if I'm being a master of the obvious or just plain having a brain cramp!

Thanks in advance Pano Forum.
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Joined: 2003-01-16
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2003-02-07
#2
Hiya BixVid dude...

u'll find that that the kaiden head puts the 990 into portrait orientation as does my diy pano head shown and described below. The thing about ur 990 being on its side (flashcard access flap down facing tripod) is that u have enuf distance from tripod base... therfore more field of view angle available so that the tripod doesn't become to much of an eyesore and is easily covered by small cap.
Now having taken ur portrait 1:2 shot u can either turn it 90 degrees in easypano (note the auto kaiden 90 deg turn button) or in ur photoshop (or similar prog) prog which is what I do as I also crop and work on the pic prior to importing. (As the pic is circular... well lets just say u could take it standing on ur head and then turn it 180 deg in easypano) Furthermore, the easypano software enables u to pitch/roll... each hemispere in incriments.
I hope that helps.

To my diy panohead which I built to test the easypano software before resorting to buy a $300 kaiden head is following to be said. It cost about $12 and works a treat.
(A) is where I screw (basic camera screw ie for ur flash mount which cost $1.59) my cp990 onto the rubbercoated metal baseplate (B) (just a bit of rubber cut out from some underlay leftovers from a hardware/carpet store + glue) The angled plate (C) also from a hardware store has the upright metal plate screwed on it. In the horizontal there's already a 4-5cm long space stamped out which has a screw with big washers (D) fastening it to the baseplate. This base plate has got a 8-9 cm long bit stamped out (by some guy in a metal work shop : 6 pack of beer) The stamped out bits enable u to adjust forwards/backwards or left and right so that u find the correct nodle point for ur given camera (cp990+fisheye+easypano/cp990+wideangle+software for cyl.pano).
U'll note the waterscale (E and only $2.99) which I initially had intended to fix to baseplate, but found it more useful rubberbanded on top of my camera which is on it's side don't forget) to ensure perfect alignment. The baseplate it's self is screwed to a standard tripod quick release plate (F) which I usally use for my flash bracket and cost only a few bucks. All of this sits nicely on my cheap $70 HAMA tripod with built in waterscale (G) (to ensure tripod positioning) and which even has 15 deg markings around the base, which whilst not clickable indent, suffice to have acurate 180/120 deg rotation.
All in all the whole assembly took an hour at the hardware store (2x metal plate 1X 45 deg angled plate screws, washers, rubber, glue)
10 mins at the photographic shop for mounting screw and tripod plate, a couple of days wait for the guy at the metal workshop to fit in my mini order and finaly about half an hour assembly and jiggling for the nodle point.
It works a treat and I have very small .12 out of line when stiching. Bloody marvelous. Now that I know that it works I can go ahead and order my easypano package having only played with the trial version so far.


If I only had an hour to chop down a tree... I'd spend 45 mins sharpening the axe.
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Joined: 2002-06-12
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2003-02-07
#3

HMMM your bracket is nice piece of work.  It appears that maybe your camera is mounted to the left 10cm of your tripod center point.

The only item I might suggest ... is that the centerline of the fisheye lens should be [left to right] directly over the tripods center point of rotation.  Keeping the lens left to right alignment over the tripod removes what is called "parallax".  Parallax is the distance between the lens center line and the actual rotation point. 

Typically if your target objects are beyond 4 or 5 meters.. your images are probably turning out rather good.  If your target objects are closer than 4 meters.. you probably noticed stitching errors in the top and bottom 10% of the stitched image which is caused by this parallax issue. 

Look in the middle of this page for Bruce Anderson's Kaidan head and a small red arrow below the camera.  The red arrow is demonstrating the lens is fixed center over tripod center point of rotation.

http://360texas.com/tips/nodalpts.htm

Just a thought on parallax.

Dave

 


/s/
Dave
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2003-02-08
#4
Thanks you Guys for your responses.
Couple more quick questions.

Phoenix since your going to buy the kaiden how much do you want for your bracket? Just kidding. You do seem to be one motivated indavidual with that design thanks for including the picture it has given me food for thought. I think I might salvage the disk rotator part from the bogan add ontop of that the bogen pistol grip ball leveler and then possible fashion a bracket some what like yours. It is going to take me a while to digest what Dave 360 added. I'm sure I'll get it though if I could get a moment to think!

Any thoughts on why trying to register Panoweaver 3.1
keeps crashing my XP computer? I put in a question to support 3 days ago but have'nt received a response.

I think also my other question was... what you said... if the image is a circular fish eye image why does it matter what the orientation of the black border 1:2 or 2:1 around it is as it is imported into Panoweaver. How does it effect the stitching process in Panoweaver? I read your piece on the photo shop cropping and importing could you refresh my recollection were that thread is?

Once again guys thanks for you support.
Jack
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2003-02-08
#5

ok.. bit of clarification on the pan head. 

All this is assuming that the camera lock screw goes the in vertical bracket hole marked 'A' .

The center of the glass/lens should be mid center of the tripod point of rotation.  Aligning the lens to the left or right of this tripod center point causes parallax.

O = lens
-^- = tripod rotation screw point

So the better CENTER alignment might look like this.

---------lens-O-lens -----
--------Tripd-^-Tripd----

This left side alignment creates parallax [See Phoenixrising pix] 

------lens-O-lens -----
------------Tripd-^-Tripd----

Or this Right side alignment

----------------lens-O-lens -----
--------Tripd-^-Tripd----

Please excuse the above stick drawings


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Dave
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2003-02-08
#6
Hi Dave,

   Thanks for the visuals both here in forum and on your
web site. If you haven't visited the link above do so as it totally
cleared it up the nodal point for me. I thought the nodal point of the Nikon EC-8 was at the thin ring just behind the large convex part of the lens not at where it screws into the camera!
Ouch! No wonder I had dificulty with some stitches. Can you shed some light on this orientation of the frame when you import into panoweaver 3.1. If using the Kaiden with the camera oriented in the portrait mode....Why do you have to rotate the images upon importing into panoweaver. Are they not already correctly oriented when acquired?
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2003-02-09
#7

When you mount the camera on the Kaidan Kiwi990 head..

the camera is in Portrait camera oriented with the lens on the bottom -

When viewing the image on the compact flash, this portrait image "top" is on the right.  Longer image side horizontal. To see it, I have to rotate my head to the right side.

When you load hemi all three of these portrait image into PW3, check mark "Kaidain".... and  PW automatically rotate counter clockwise the images so that the top is now vertical or longer side vertical.

Of course, if you preprocess your rectangle .jpg images in Photoshop by croping the images to be a square and manually rotate them counter clockwise, it is not necessary to use the PW Kaidan rotation option.

Hope this helps

Dave


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Dave
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2003-02-09
#8
Just to clarify an issue.

The above rig is able to adjust left to right so as to ensure the fisheye lens would be at it's nodal point ie center of tripod turning point. Wouldn't make any sense otherwise... The above picture doesn't make it all that clear unless u c the cp990 on it... alas I only have the one camera (until the CEBIT expo in Hannover that is) so am unable to show rig with cp mounted which would show that when mounted the fish eye is at the nodal point we all so seek.

-------------    
I              I ()
I              I-   )
I     A        I     )   <--- B
I              I-   )
I              I ()
-------------
     I    I
     I    I
C I    I <--- D
     I    I
     I    I
      ----
----------------X----    <---E
                   ---
                   I I
                   I I        <---F

A= swivelled upper part of body with lens of cp990
B= fisheyelens (moved back/forw. left/right for nodal point)
C= screen facing
D= lower part of cp body
E= base plat attached to Tripod
F= Tripod
x= Nodal point (turning point of tripod)

Teehee... so imagine the above is my cp attached as above to the rig... works. No parralax



Btw... Dave, thx for ur advice on how to post a pic on this site and for all the other hints 'n help to all of us
If I only had an hour to chop down a tree... I'd spend 45 mins sharpening the axe.
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Joined: 2003-01-04
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2003-02-09
#9

xrising,

good job on the head rig.  do you have to find the nodal point everytime you use the head?

 


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2003-02-09
#10

OH... NOW I SEE IT - thanks for point it out to me. 

That is a good bracket.


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2003-02-10
#11
VT:360

Nope... once I've found my nodal point I just tighten the screws so that the point is fixed. The possibility for adjustment was just so that I could find the nodal point. I've marked the left/right back/forward points on my metal plates for the fisheye. I also use a wideangel for Cyl. shots, which of course has another nodalpoint... just means jiggling back and forth until that one's found. Now I've marked that one up as well I can easily undo screw from one nodalpoint marking to the other.
The whole thing is very solid. Oh yeah one final point. Don't forget to rubberband the waterscale to the top of the camera. It's perfect for precise alignment. As the camera is screwed side on to the vertical plate I have the possibilty to tilt the camera on that axis backwards and forwards to adjust for minor differences when having turned 120/180 degrees.
Also I've marked a 45 degree angle up and down for work with the wideangle lens and multiple rows of foto's for stiching cyl panoramas and therefore more field of view... works.

Thx to Dave for ur advice on finding the nodal points btw...

Oh I thought I'd add a few more images to the rig to clarify things a wee bit.







If I only had an hour to chop down a tree... I'd spend 45 mins sharpening the axe.