panorama software,virtual tour software
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Joined: 2003-08-10
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2003-09-10
#1

let's talk about money...

Hi there,

Thinking businesswise, I would like to know how much you take for a pano and what "goodies" you include and what you offer as an extra. Maybe we can get a nice worldwide pricerange.

Greetings,

Gerwin


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2003-09-10
#2

I did a survey last December 2002

http://360texas.com/services/worldprice.htm

This survey was based on the individual website published pricing pages.   Often the published price is not what is actually agreed upon contract price.  It just depends on the client criteria.

Hope that helps

Dave


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2003-09-11
#3

I have seen some quite unbelievably low prices given for virtual tours. I would advise all parties interested in providing panoramics commercially to not try to obtain business by getting into price wars and trying to undercut competitors rates. If a panoramic or virtual tour is prepared and presented to a high quality it has a significant commercial rate which  businesses are prepared to pay.

It should be noted to make a profit from working in this medium costs for imagery have to cover all other expenses and downtime, e.g. travel costs, unsuiatable shooting conditions, re-shoots due to error, as well as non-earning time (obtaining new work etc.)

It is best to create a name for yourself as a supplier of high quality imagery than somebody who is 'cheap'

In a nutshell....."If you think you are a monkey, ask for peanuts"

Alternatively, DONT !!

 


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2003-09-12
#4
I agree with the monkey theory...

I did my first few pano's at a low rate of around $100 per shot. I since then found a sliding scale for a standard shoot with a set up fee of $189 which includes the web data, email/cd data versions + all links and genertaed tifs as well as the first pano. I'll charge approx $110-135 per pano thereafter and go down to $85 after the seventh shot. ( I also have a realestate 5 pano + 10 2d pics package priced at $235 due to the repeat business element) These prices are all just guidelines and can double...triple...and more... all depending on the time/effort/quality element required.

This is on the cheaper side in Germany... though I have little competition and know that a number of collegues do work for significantly more.

However this is only the basic package... I mean u get loads of links incl. 2d pics... email, url's, map and even scripted movement. Though I'll only offer this in Java. I do do quicktime work as well... this is however at least twice as expensive as I offer larger tiff files (for print) as well as full screen high data .movs and because I have to do multple exposure rows and have therefore more work.

Do note that I live in a rural area and that my clients are small to medium business's with limited budgets.... therefore my statement that I'm on the cheaper side in Germany. Most of my compatriats seem to be city dwellers ... ie have a different client base that may be willing to pay more. Also most of the players over here are not a couple of kids who've picked up on this idea and are selling bad quality work at bad quality prices. Most seem to be pro photographers or programers who do this thing as an add on.

Most of the guys I know have very high standards and produce good quality work for a fair... albeit if compared to the US high price.

I therefore advise u all to tell ur customer to get stuffed if he's doing the cheap shift on u... u should if anything get in touch with ur competition and agree minimum pricing levels so as to ensure a fair rate of pay.
If I only had an hour to chop down a tree... I'd spend 45 mins sharpening the axe.
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Joined: 2002-10-08
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2003-09-12
#5
I think one major problem with Virtual Tour services is its unlike still images, whereby it can be used widely by clients both in prints, internet and other medias whearas 360VT strictly to be used for internet only and thereby leading to much lower demand but lower demand and therefore prices sometimes are forced to be much lower... unless we could make 360VT to be used on a wider media... if not i am afraid 360VT will soon fade away in the market...
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2003-10-20
#6

i agree with most of your views. there are hundreds of factors and formulas that economists use to determine prices. many of them based on supply and demand.

ofcourse, this could be time comsuming and complex. i suggest something simpler which is accurate, realistic, and fast.

1.take a look at your local competition and compare your prices and services

2.if you feel you have more to offer in terms of quality and overall value, you can charge a higher fee.

notes: make sure you compare apples to apples. if you're attempting to charge more than your competitors, be ready to express and convince your clients why your prices are higher. you can use your portfolio and compare it side by side with the competition. most consumers are willing to pay the lower price even if it means giving up quality. realtors pay $60 for 4 tour scenes.

 


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2003-10-20
#7

I agree.  One of the other aspects is 'clients preceived value'.  $60 /4 = $15 for each panorama.  However, you now have $60 in your pocket.

You probably will spend 1 hour stitching the 4 images and delivering them to your client.  So essentially you received $60/ for 1 hours work.

That might be your assessment of work performed in exchange for services rendered.   Out of that you might reduce this rate by state sales tax, state and federal income tax, self employment tax, overhead expenses [electricity to run the computers, paper printing invoices internet access expense]  and then direct costs, Auto insurance, car expense tires, gasoline oil, telephone calls etc.,  depreciation on equipment [so you can someday replace the camera/computer]. Those burdened expenses probably reduce that $60 income by 50% down to $30 net.  Out of the remaining $30, pay yourself a fair wage of say $20/ hour.  And that leaves $10 left over. 

What amount is left over after all the bills have been paid is considered profit.  $10 profit on $60 generated revenue is .167%  or 16.7% profit.  Which is not bad really considering most major corporations only generate 3% over a year's accounting period.

What has this type of analysis actually done for us?  It might be considered historical accounting.  Historical accounting values now can be used to forecast  earnings and pricing future work

$60/ hour = 100% revenue

$30/hour =  50% of $60 indirect overhead rate

$20/hour =   Direct labor expenses

10$/hour = 16.7% profit.

So when you bid your next job, base it on how many hours it will take you to perform the specific criteria.  

Clients preceived value 4 panoramas for realestate for $60 for 60 days means that it is costing the client $1/day for 4 images that will help sell the property.  After the property is sold... these images make a good CD-R for the new property owner... other than that.. they have no particular value.

Panoramas for other than real estate probably have a better market value and therefore can be sold for a higher price, because of the clients preceived value.

Hotels and other fixed properties can be sold for $150 EACH.  Because their images are long term 5 years [1,825 days] or more.  Or until the property is renovated, then the existing panoramas no longer represent the property being marketed.  $150/ 1825 days = means .082 cents per day for the same panorma product.

A client might look at  $1.00/ day compared to $0.08/ day and recognize which is the better product life time value.  Which by the way is a good marketing tool for you to use in advertising your work.

I have discussed this issue far too long today.

Dave


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2003-10-20
#8

A nice perception Dave,

I don't dissagree!

Although I would not have a bar of a lousy $60 USD for 4 panoramas, but then again I see the work (quality) they're getting and it is pretty poor. It is those who offer this cheap and nasty work for real estate at $60 for four panoramas that I do not ever wish to be involved, I have a reputation and for whatever it's worth I would never offer work of that quality.

If a job is worth doing, do it properly the first time! If that means you charge more than the others, so be it. If they won't pay more! Move on. There is plenty of ways of making money out of quality pano's.

I can earn $60 an hour at home clear, without going out and prostituting myself or work.

Just my thoughts.

Regards, Smooth


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2003-10-21
#9

I agree smooth,

I work for ?s not $'s as I live in the UK, however this is an absolute bargain basement level and I cannot see it being a viable option for 'stitched panoramas' . I cannot realistically see how four panorama's can be sold for $60.00.

With all work there is a significant amount of down-time that needs to be accounted for. Downtime is all time doing work that does not generate any capital and can include chatting to clients about your work, technology, etc as they will be interested, waiting 10 minutes for the sun to dip behind the roof of the house so that your shot is more evenly lit, packing and unpacking equipment in between locations, answering calls or speaking to potential clients, finding locations, traffic jams, .............................. and so on!!!

But why charge only $60.00 when you can ans should realistically charge more.

I would not work for this figure, I do not make that statement in an arrogant fashion, but I believe that my business would suffer tremendously if I started making these promises to clients.

It is very frustrating if you find you have underpriced on any project, it is demoralising, your quality of work suffers, and generally speaking the client ends up wishing that he had 'paid more' and found a 'professional' to do the work.

Be very careful with any such claims, instead try and develop a branding that is recognised for its quality,  and companies will pay.


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2003-10-21
#10

?s =pounds sterling (excuse my keyboard)

chad


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2003-10-21
#11

Whoa  hold up here.. please 1 minute.

Please do not apply a standard used in 1 part of the world to yours.  Local world wide economies will differ.  But I understand your postitions... fair is fair trade.

The only issue here is common across all world  economies... expen$e$ + fair profit = price for product.

It is important that you apply a business sense to your product.

What [cost + overhead + profit = price] pricing structure works in Australia  might not work in the US or Europe.

Did not mean to set off a firestorm discussion... it is only a level headed approach to pricing... and that depends on the local economy.

Dave

 


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