panorama software,virtual tour software
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Joined: 2008-03-01
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2008-04-19
#1

HDR or Flash for Interiors

First want to start by thanking SMOOTH for two super lessons that both ran well over the two hours of time I paid for. Highly recommended.

As a newbee I am having trouble working on room interiors and balancing the window light. Creating 3 different exposured images from one RAW file (D300) and converting those 3 exposures into an HDR image does not produce good enough results for my purposes. To create an HDR image I would normally shoot 4 or 5 RAW exposures 2 stops apart, but doing that for all 8 pictures needed for a Panoweaver panorama is not only a lot of work, I'm not confident the resulting tonemapped images will blend perfectly into a panarama?  Using flash or strobes to balance the window exposure would be difficult with the Nikon 10.5 fisheye, as well as resulting in flash overlap into the next image in the panorama. What's the answer? I'll bet it's easy to those who know what they are doing - unlike me! 


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2008-04-29
#2
Peanut, I think the *best* way might be to combine the two, using a flash on either the normal, or the under photo. I have not tried it yet, but having used flash a lot, I am a little worried about it. When I use a flash I find I often have to change the flash orientation to evenly light the room, and sometimes it can take several shots to find the "sweet spot." It would be extremely easy to forget to delete one of these extra images, or to accidentally delete one of the no-flash HDR images in a series. Either could ruin you day.   Ultimately, I think BEST is defined not only by what works for you, but more importantly, what your clients are willing to pay for. (Unless, of course, you enjoy being a starving artist, and in that case, just do what you like.)
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2008-05-01
#3

I really appreciate that input.  Thank you.

Has anyone got a HDR/Tonemapped/Panoweaver image I could view?


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2008-05-01
#4
I'm trying out some panos using a mix of flash and blending (as an aside, I am switching to the term "blended" because I think is more accurate then either HDR or IDR in this context) and getting some promising results. What were you wanting to see images of? The first tour in the link I posted was blended using XFuse, so I think it would count as an HDR image.
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2008-05-01
#5
Peanut, here is one I just did using Photomatix tonemapping/details enhancement. This is using the method I mentioned above.
Nikon D300, D3s, Nikon 10.5 lens, RingT105N+Footplate+MrotatorTCPs, Giottos MT9261 Tripod, Manfrotto 410 Jr geared head.

If you know the "secret" then everyday is a good day!
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2008-05-02
#6

That is a great image realtor jerry. I am not sure I fully understand your method.

I assume for an HDR image you take at least 3 different exposures for each image, and that applies for the 6 different camera rotations + up and down - say 8. So that is 24 exposures. Are you stitching the 8 overexposed images, then the 8 middle exposures and finally the 8 underexposed images to create 3 stitched images?  1 stitched overexposed, 1 stitched mid exposure and 1 stitched under exposured.  These 3 stitched images are then blended in Photomatix? Is that what you are doing? Or maybe you make 1 RAW exposure for each of the 8 images and then create 3 different exposed jpg's from that 1 RAW file?


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2008-04-20
#7

Hi Chris,

Firstly is is a misnomer to call any of this HDR because in fact it isn't though it seems to be the every man and his dog are calling Tone Mapping HDR. I prefer to call it IDR (Increased Dynamic Range) or WDR (Wide Dynamic Range).

Now to answer your question I should think that 3 bracketed shots should be able to cover blown out windows. Though you might very well be better off using Enfuse to do your fusing/blending. It is also possible that you need to set your average shot 1 stop down from the light meter recommendation (EV-0) and shoot your bracket shoots as wide as you can from that point. It should also be noted that the bracketing should be done via shutter speed only and not by adjusting the aperture. I would recommend you use the cameras inbuilt bracketing feature.

If you can send me a sample set of images I'm willing to take a look and attempt to blend them to see what the result can be based on a few different methods.

Regards, Smooth


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2008-04-23
#8
I bracket all my shots and never use flash. I blend the images using Photomatix. I just bought the new version and it's sweet. I have no idea what all the adjustment do, but I fool around with them until I get the image I need and then save the settings for all the pics. Photomatix has two methods: Details Enhancer and Tone Compressor. The Details Enhancer gives a more surrealistic effect with saturated colors -- almost painterly. But Tone Compressor gives a more photographic effect.

Definitely try it. You can download the demo version.
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2008-04-24
#9

For HDR (or IDR) I normally take three bracketed RAW shots 2 or 3 stops apart and have no trouble blending those into one tonemapped image using Photomatic. That's fine when only one is working with only one image.

I guess my question is - for a stitched image - do I create a tonemapped image for each of my 6 x 10.5mm shots, (a total of 18 exposures) and 2 tone mapped images for zenith and nadir (6 more exposures), finally blending those 24 exposed images down to eight and stitching those eight tonemapped HDR's with Panoweaver? I am thinking each of the eight tonemapped images could be slightly different, resulting in a strange looking final stitched image?

Or should I create 3 different stitched panoramas (one for each exposure) then blend the 3 stitched images with Photomatix blending them down to one tonemapped image? Am I making sense?  I'm not sure even I understand what I'm writing!!!

It seems each tonemapped/finished image has a slightly different look and if I used the former approach I could get a very odd looking stitched picture.  I guess the answer might be to try it both ways and see what happens?


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2008-04-25
#10

I don't know if this helps, but I generate a tonemapped image for each shot. I use an 8mm Sigma fisheye, so I'm doing 4 shots around plus zenith and nadir, with 2 exposures each.

I then stitch the tomemapped images and save as a layered Photoshop file. I opne the Photoshop file and move the zenith and nadir layers to the top and then feather out all the masks accordingly. Occationally, ther will be one or two layers that look either darker or lighter than the others. In those cases, I make adjustments in Photoshop.

Here's one I just completed:
http://www.tulfra.com/one_commerce_center/3775_park.html


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2008-04-25
#11

I did take a look at your URL.  10:40am 25Apr08 Central Texas Time

Received Java Console notice below:

IE 7 and Sun Java Plug-in 1.6.0_05
Using JRE version 1.6.0_05 Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM

On Loading Tourweaver page:
Exception in thread "RefreshThread" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space

Clicking on Still Images:  Images were displayed properly

Warehouse Ceiling
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-3" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space

Floor View 1
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-3" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space

Floor View 2
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-3" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space


Floor View 3
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-3" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space

Same for remaining views

Clicked on Front Entrance, Lobby, Floor and Loft
Received same Err but No panoramas displayed

Maybe your panoramas were not ready for viewing, but still received Err's on still imaging


/s/
Dave
Forum Moderator for
EasyPano - Panoweaver
Pano2VR


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