panorama software,virtual tour software
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2009-10-24
#1

Nodal Ninja R1 HELP!!

OK, so I now have the NN R1, sitting on my Manfrotto 190XPROB. I have a Canon EOS 450D and Sigma 8mm f/3.5 EX DG and am getting TERRIBLE results!!

I am confused as to how to get the zenith as when 'flipping over' the R1 ro take the shot, the R1will not go through the 90 degree angle. It is fine for taking the nadir. Now I am guessing this is where maybe I should tilt up the R1 throughout the four 90 degree shots to get the zenith. Hmm, have tried this and am just getting some shocking results and am now thinking I am missing something obvious - any suggestions?!?!?!

Wozza


Regards,
Wozza
EOS 450D, Sigma 8mm F3.5 EX DG, Manfrotto 190XPROB
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2009-11-05
#2
Wozza,

5 degrees up or 5 degrees down doesn't effect the NPP so long as the light remains approximately the same entering the lens. Understand that "Fisheye" lens doesn't have a fixed NPP (it floats with light via the entrance pupil).

-5 degrees down shots would allow me to check the NPP.

Sorry, I thought you were using PW6 not PW5 so you are limited to set configurations of images.

Regards, Smooth
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2009-10-24
#3
Wozza,

Lets "assume" you have attached the Lens Ring to the Sigma 8mm correctly and leveled it up (best done with a Hotshoe Bubble Level).

The R1 should be set to +5 degrees and for 90 degree click stops.

The Sigma 8mm Lens should have both the Lens Cap and the Lens Ring removed so you get the full FOV (Field of View) This is done by pulling the lens ring forward along with the lens cap in one go.

There is no need to shot an up/Zenith shot at all. The +5 degree tilt will capture all the Zenith area for the 4 rotational shots.

The nadir shot is done off tripod or by leaning the tripod. Tilting the R1 down is of no benefit. Panoweaver is limited with what it can do regarding the offset nadir shot, so you need to be as accurate as you can (hand held or tilting the tripod).

It is important that you check and assign control points to have a good spread from top to bottom (clustered centered control points are not good enough).

If you like shoot 4 images as explained, upload and provide a link and I will take a look.

Regards, Smooth
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2009-10-25
#4

Hi Smooth.

Have come along way since the last post. Practice makes perfect I guess and I am amazed at what subtle little differences can make! I am still getting a small 'hole' at the zenith, but tilting to 7.5 degrees decreases it and am able to edit this out, however, this is because I'm taking the shots outside and on grass so editing is easy! Hopefully I will crack the complexities of it in good time. Experimenting indoors on a tiled floor and it all goes wrong. A lot of trial and error ahead I feel!! I have tried and tried but just cannot get it anywhere near right when there is a tiled floor involved!! When you say tilting the tripod, Will this not then just capture your feet instead of the tripod?!?!

Here is a link to what I mean about the tiled floor: http://users.tpg.com.au/wjtpg/test1/pano1.jpg and the images are the same path, but 1.jpg, 2.jpg, 3.jpg, 4.jpg & 5.jpg instead of pano1.jpg

This is a link the most successful one yet, but still not perfect as can be seen on the crossbar of the swing and the tree trunk to the right of the slide, but I'm getting close!! http://users.tpg.com.au/wjtpg/test2/pano2.jpg and the images are the same path, but 1.jpg, 2.jpg, 3.jpg, 4.jpg & 5.jpg instead of pano2.jpg

These are not the original files, they have been reduced in size and please ignore the exposures!!

Regards,
Woz


Regards,
Wozza
EOS 450D, Sigma 8mm F3.5 EX DG, Manfrotto 190XPROB
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2009-10-25
#5
Quote: Originally posted by wozzaj on October-25-2009

I am amazed at what subtle little differences can make! I am still getting a small 'hole' at the zenith, but tilting to 7.5 degrees decreases it and am able to edit this out
The slightest of movements will make a difference. I believe you mean Nadir(down) not Zenith(up) on this occasion!

Quote: Originally posted by wozzaj on October-25-2009
When you say tilting the tripod, Will this not then just capture your feet instead of the tripod?!?!

Yes it is likely you will capture your feet. Just try and minimise this and make sure your feet, shadow or tripod are not in the area that is needed for patching the nadir area. If your feet are on the extremities the blender will remove them. The alternative is to use Alpha channel masks in Photoshop (although Panoweaver does not support them!).

The way you are currently shooting the Nadir(down) shot is pointless as you are always going to have it in view.

Anyway, here is a stitched sample of your indoor shot with tiles in QTVR .mov format.

As you can see the tiles line up fine.

One question: How did you determined the R1 Ring rail setting number and what is it set at? I ask because it is wrong.

Tip: DO NOT re-level between positions. Level up at position 1 (0 degrees) and shoot your panorama.

Regards, Smooth
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2009-10-25
#6

Ok I tried the tilting of the tripod and the hand held for the nadir and still not getting it! I have gone through and tried all the settings within the R1 manual and am still getting rubbish results so am thinking that as you were able to make a good pano from mine, then I guess there is more to the stitching than I thought? I would love to see the example of the one you did from my shots, however, the link does not seem to work? I import the images and set the Fisheye Image Enclosing to just just the blue edge of the image and pre-stitch. I often get asked to insert matching points. Is there a trick or some tips to this aside from making sure they actually match up?!? Should I also accept the default matching points or go through doing them all manually? I did notice when looking through them all that the last one, the nadir, never has any matching points and doesn't ask for any so I do them manually??

As for the R1 Ring Rail setting, how on earth can you tell it was wrong?!!?? I can't even remember what it was for those images as I was trying so many variations. I have now gone through each one as recommended in the manual :
R1           Tilt Reading
+12.5°           1.00
+7.5               1.65
+5                  1.95
0                    2.65
-2.5               2.95
-7.5               3.60

I've labeled each batch of shots with these settings, compared and uploaded them to: http://users.tpg.com.au/wjtpg/test3/TestSettings_Project26.html and as you can see there are still mis-alignments and as for the nadir - I'm not even getting close!!

I don't re-level between shots as have read not to do that on here.


Regards,
Wozza
EOS 450D, Sigma 8mm F3.5 EX DG, Manfrotto 190XPROB
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2009-10-25
#7
Quote: Originally posted by wozzaj on October-25-2009
I would love to see the example of the one you did from my shots, however, the link does not seem to work?

The download link has been corrected. Right click save as

Quote: Originally posted by wozzaj on October-25-2009
As for the R1 Ring Rail setting, how on earth can you tell it was wrong?!!??

Through many years of experience and by knowing what the Nadir footprint should look like.

Your samples at different settings are not of any use to be able to help you. Because you have attempted to patch or stitch in the Nadir. Before getting ahead of yourself you need to just get the 4 rotational shots right. Once this is correct you can move on and attempt to stitch in a Nadir shot.

Regards, Smooth
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2009-10-28
#8

Ok Smooth, I, as usual, took your advice and went away tried all sorts of different settings, but without the nadir shot and also spent a lot more time on the stitching. However, as things have got a lot better, I am still getting slight mis-alignment on the floor and only the floor - everything else is fine, but on a tiled floor this mis-alignment really shows up badly. I am probably missing something very obvious here, but don't know what it is and I know I can get around it by putting in a lens cap, but that is not the way I want to go. After seeing what you did with my shots before, I'm wondering if it is the stitching that I need to perfect or maybe the levelling, but I have it set pretty level.

The following examples were shot with a tilt of +7.5 & +5.0 and numerous R1 ring rail settings which are identified on each shot ( http://users.tpg.com.au/wjtpg/test1/down.rar ) and I am still getting mis-alignment. Are you able to see where I am going wrong by looking at these?
With importing the images, after importing I manually assign 6 matching points over as wide an area as possible, then pre-stitch and stitch. One question with this, does it matter if you use the same points in different shots? I have tried both ways, but I can see no visible difference.

Thanks again mate.
Woz


Regards,
Wozza
EOS 450D, Sigma 8mm F3.5 EX DG, Manfrotto 190XPROB
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2009-10-29
#10

I have been using Smartblend all along, although not the those parameters. I'll give it a try with them.

Thanks again,

Woz.


Regards,
Wozza
EOS 450D, Sigma 8mm F3.5 EX DG, Manfrotto 190XPROB
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2009-11-02
#11

OK Smooth - after extensive trialling of all the previous settings and this time using the parameters -MinSize 0 -TSmooth 4  -WrapMode 1 within Smartblend, the differences are negligable. I just can't understand how you were able to take a set of my 90 degree rotational shots and stitch them together and the tiles of the floor all line up. I just cannot get it right! I am guessing it must be to do with the stitching, but I am at the point of pulling out my hair now! I can get so close, but just not close enough  - where am I going wrong?!?!?

Woz.


Regards,
Wozza
EOS 450D, Sigma 8mm F3.5 EX DG, Manfrotto 190XPROB