panorama software,virtual tour software
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2005-01-20
#1

What to charge?

Hi all

I've come across my first VR customer - whahay!  That's the good news.  Bad news is I've not got a bloody clue what's realistic to charge.

It's a small hotel in the Wales (UK) and they have about 15 rooms I believe.  The property is fairly upmarket and is a lovely medieval timber framed structure.

What would be fair to charge for:

1. individual VR's per room

or

2. A complete tour of the whole place

I know it's tough not seeing the place but a rough guesstimate would be much appreciated.

Many thanks!


Condottiero - Freelance Multimedia Design
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2005-01-20
#2
Steiner,

How you charge is initially irrelevant compared to what you charge.

The price depends on many variables but mainly two
- what are your costs?
- how much do you need to cover costs and make a reasonable profit?

Only you have the answers to those questions.

If you haven't already worked out the answers, then with respect, I would urge you strongly to reconsider what you're doing.

Regards,
Mark
Cheers,
Mark
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#3

Big Green

Thanks for the reply mate.  As I'd said - I was just looking for examples of what people have charged in the past for 'similar' sized jobs - that's all.  I've been designing websites, user interfaces, printed material, animations, 3D, video, etc, etc, since 1983 - but never QTVR. 

With respect, I think I do know the basics of how to run a business.  Getting back into VR work is something I did as casual self-dev.  Having said that, I've been presented with an opportunity of taking it that one step further so I was just looking to see if I could be presented with 'realistic' charge rates - as per the experience of people doing it professionally.

All feedback welcome

Steiner


Condottiero - Freelance Multimedia Design
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2005-01-20
#4

You may want to do a reverse price analogy for comparision to actual cost.  And remember "Profit" is defined as the remaining amount in the account after all the bills have been paid.  So to have  'profit' value you must add it to your pricing structure.

Now for the value of the panoramas.  We had this discussion last year you might want to do a search to locate the thread.  But in essences its called "value". 

I think we used hotel occupancy rate in the last discussion.  Have to make some assumptions, but lets say a hotel has 100 rooms.  An annual review indicates that the occupancy rate is 75%  or all year 75 of the 100 rooms are occupied.  However, it also tells you that 25 of the rooms are vacant all year.

So our pricing objective would be to decrease the NON-filled 25 rooms to only 10 non filled rooms all year by adding panoramas to the hotels web page.  OR a capacity improvement of 15 filled rooms to 90 annually (75 + 15 = 90).

Applying a monetary amount to these assumptions might be like this:

25 rooms not occupied x $50/night = $1,250/day x 365 days = $456,250/year.

10 rooms not occupied x $50/night = $500/day x 365 = $182,500.

Original loss $456,250

Revised loss $182,500

Net annual gain $282,750 possibly as a result of placing 10 panoramas on the hotels website.

Lets say you charge $100/panorama x 10 that is $1,000 for you.

Hotels revenue savings over 5 years might be:

Year 1  $282,750 - 1,000 cost = $281,750

Year 2, 3,4,5 $282,750 x 4 years = $1,131,000

Total 5 year improvement as a result of 10 panoramas being added to their website = $1,412,750.

Seems $100/panorama is too little.. Try $1,000/panorama x 10 = $10,000 for you and the Hotel STILL make a significant improvement to their bottom financial line.

You can use this analogy for a lot of different types of 'capacity' driven businesses.

What works.. somes works well for all.

Oh and here is that Hotel Calculator url courtesy of Markus

http://www.panoramas.ch/preise/roi_e.aspx

Dave

 


/s/
Dave
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2005-01-20
#5

Hi Mate,

I've found that the tours tend to lead to designing a website for somebody and then become part of a package price. I still think that many  punters don#t quite realise the work involved in making a good quality tour and will always try and push the price. As far as Germany is concerned... I tend to charge something like 100-150 Euros per sphere. I have however charged considerably less for first time projects which would lead to more business. Realestate work ain't all that and the real estate market trys to get it for nought. Hotels on the otherhand have a real longterm benefit and if you consider the fact that you need to get to Whales, spend a good half day taking the pics and probably will even need to check the pic quality on site meaning a god days stay followed by a day or two work for the tours... HHmmm... and then theres the dead time, your kit, rent... I reckon that u should be charging a grand at least. I charged 850 quid for this tour at http://www.tannrokka.com which includes 5 spheres and various pics. This was also my first working TW tour.


If I only had an hour to chop down a tree... I'd spend 45 mins sharpening the axe.
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#6

Fellas

Many thanks indeed.  This was exactly the sort of feedback I'd been hoping for.  Dave, apologies, I had done a forum search but on 'charging'.  I'll get the ol Thesaurus out next time.  ;)  Your spreadsheet breakdown is extremely helpful - many thanks indeed!

Pheonix, I had exactly the same thoughts.  The travel from BUCKS to Wales is a b***h, but if I could get them to put me up for the night, gratis, then I would definitely be looking to offer 'them' a price break, as there are dozens of similar establishments in this beautiful area of the UK. Obviously I'll do my best to guage the level of word of mouth they might be able to offer.   

Either way, I'll let everyone know how things pan out.

Cheers

Steiner


Condottiero - Freelance Multimedia Design
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#7
Quote: Originally posted by phoenixrising on January-20-2005

charged 850 quid for this tour at http://www.tannrokka.com which includes 5 spheres and various pics. This was also my first working TW tour.


Hey Pheonix, I really liked this tour.  Did you also do the Web site and Flash work by any chance?

 


Condottiero - Freelance Multimedia Design
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2005-01-20
#8

Hi Steiner

Prices from a UK Hoteltour specialist. You may have come accross them

http://www.hotelvirtualtours.co.uk/pricing.html 

mediaPix



Nikon D70s, Sigma 8mm, Agnos MrotatorTShort, Photoshop CS, Panoweaver 3 & 4
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#9
Excellent - good to use as a comparison.  Thanks Mediapix.
Condottiero - Freelance Multimedia Design
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#10
Ooops. I owe you an apology, steiner. I wrote my response in a tearing hurry whilst fighting off a torrent of SPAM into my inbox so I came over a bit terse. So sorry. I also assumed from your post here and in the "reasons to hate Nikon" thread that you were a newbie to imaging. So double apologies.

Regarding pricing policy: the schemes above relate solely to hotel work but VR has applications in other industries. A tariff based solely on time works well as most industries seem to view VR work as consultancy and therefore accept the time/cost model. Once you have a cost per hour rate it's easy to translate the total amount of time for a job into units relevant to the client i.e. number of rooms, number of locations, etc.

Currently I operate on a base rate of 50GBP per hour plus VAT which, when post processing is accounted for, comes out roughly equal to the rates on the hotel virtual tours site.

One final point: if you travel to take pictures a laptop is great investment. Nothing beats checking images on site plus, if you stay overnight, you get the opportunity to post process in the evening. The first avoided revisit pays for the laptop.

Incidentally, did you ever sort out your Photoshop RAW plugin problem?

Hope this helps,
Mark
Cheers,
Mark
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#11

No worries Mark, sh*t happens as they say - and compared to these other fellas I am a newbie with VR. 

It sounds as if VR work parallels certain multimedia rates.  It's all a matter of weighing up the size of the clients' enterprise of course.  I'd love to charge $1000 a pano, but I've never come across a player in the UK who'd stomach that level of expenditure (BP perhaps).

?100 sounds more likely, along with free room/board and all the real ale I can drink. A smile from the bar maid wouldn't hurt either.  ; )

Re. the plugin issue - no - I neva got that UI to auto start but to be honest I hadn't put much time into it.  I'll look into it again when I've a moe.  I suspect it may just require a PS reinstall.

Thanks for the feedback

Steiner

 


Condottiero - Freelance Multimedia Design