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Subject Topic: top bottom shooting tips Post Reply Post New Topic
Message posted by makpatel on September-19-2005 at 7:30am
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makpatel
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August-08-2005
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can anyone help me or let me know the tops for shooting top/bottom?

my equip. list written in my signature.

i also wanted to know the tips to get shoot picture sharpern and clear with simga 8mm which is i am not satisfied with its sharp result.

actually when i shoot with infinity manual focus setup with sigma 8mm it dont shoot with perfect sharpness of the field objects near to camera.

my post contains two points

1. top/bottom shooting tips.. mostly bottom with my equip list.
2. picture clarity result of sigma 8mm.

if anyone can help it would be a gr8 for me.


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Nikon D100 | Sigma 8mm F4 FishEye | ManFrotto 303 SPH Pano-Head | ManFrotto 756B Tripod


MAK Patel
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www.vox360.in

Message posted by 360texas on September-19-2005 at 9:16am
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The Sigma 8 sweet spot (where all is in focus) is F7 or 8.  Use for 4 click stop shutter speed average.  Enter both in Manual Mode.

for top and bottom image.. take them at click stop #4 position.

Hope that helps.

Dave



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Message posted by Gen. Lee on September-19-2005 at 12:08pm
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Gen. Lee
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Dave is correct here. Except that it is really "sharpness" and not "focus" we are talking about.

Your problem is related to aperture size. On wide angle lenses one should "avoid" small apertures in general. Every lens has a "sweet spot" where sharpness is at its best.

Light is "diffracted" around edges of the aperture. This diffraction scatters light at different angles and consequently produces loss of sharpness. This happens on ALL lenses but is especially a problem on wide angle lenses set at small apertures.

Interior shots are usually not a problem to shoot in this aperture range. But outside is where there becomes a possible issue. If the sun will be in the shot the camera is not going to properly meter the scene and may pick an aperture out side the sweet spot.

So the camera meters 1/500,F16. On a clear day with 10:00 to 2:00 sun this setting is not going to work.  You can select different metering modes but you should be using "spot". You need to meter specific different parts of the scene to determine the "average" exposure setting. You want to properly expose for MID TONES and the average of the light, dark, and middle parts of the scene should be the average. It is just like setting the black, white and grey point for color correction in photoshop.

A good example of this situation is in a scene with big trees. You want the blue sky but you also want to see the bark texture and colors of the fawna located in the shadow of the tree,

Now we must find a mid tone setting with an aperture in the sweet spot. I normally estimate an exposure setting and adjust by equal stops down until I get the aperture I want. You still have a range but it should be in the sweet spot. Of course adjust up if necessary. Remember that a change in aperture size with equal change in shutter speed will yield the same exposre. Example: F13,1/125 will yield the same exposre as F8,1/1000 

Back to the camera setting: 1/125,F13 on the Nikkor ( Fstops are different for different lenses)
Say this is the calculated mid tone setting. Using my method we arrive at 1/1000,F8. Perfect. At least it seems so. Take a test shot, look at the histogram. Humm looks like the sky is blown out. Highlights are all peaked out OR the shadows are under exposed OR both. Well then we have to make a choice. Take a few test shots at different shutter speeds. Pick the histogram that has the best balance. Or decide which to expose for, shadows or highlights. If you bracket your shots  and use HDR you should come out with a good pano. If you dont use bracketing then you will still get a good exposure but exposed for only light or dark. Creative Choice here for how you want to photograph the scene.

Your probably thinking why dont I just set the aperture at F/8 and pick a shutter speed that works. Easy enough until you get to moving objects like tree limbs from the wind and especially people or boats floating on the water at a dock. If you wind up with a slow shutter speed then these objects blur on the seams or in general. It is really a problem when bracketing and using HDR. So the trick is to set the highest shutter speed you can get away with but with the largest aperture possible (large apertures = small F numbers).

You can make a little note card table with these values to make it easier to fig out. It also really helps me to take scene notes about the weather conditions/lighting conditions and other exposure issues. Later in post processing I am able to see how I messed up or got it right. As your experience increases your note taking and previous shoots will help you be able to walk into a scene, quickly look around and immediately know what exposure to use. You will just be able to add all this info up in your right quick. It gets easier.

I shoot with a Nikkor 10.5mm so I cannot comment on the Sigma sweet spot. But as Dave said F7 or F8 sounds about right.

Sweet spot on the Nikkor 10.5 is F5.6 to F11 with F8 to F11 being the "bulls eye"

Since your lens has a huge depth of field (basically infinity-- although this can change with distance to the camera especially if you are within 12 inches of an object but you should definitely avoid this situation), you should shoot at infinity focus and rely on the lens depth of field to bring things into focus.

You should be able to shoot 4 without a top and bottom with the Sigma lens. You will have a small pinhole or slightly larger at the top and bottom to patch but that is very easy to do. Convert to a cube, open photoshop and clone out the top hole. Cover the bottom with a tripod cap or patch this one to. Convert back to sphere and do the color correcting in this format to avoid white "cube lines".

Should you shoot a top and bottom then there a few things to consider.

Auto focus should be avoided. The meter of the lens will focus on the closest object and if there is a light fixture hanging from the ceiling it will focus on that and bring you out of infinty focus. This will cause the edges fo the image to be blurry. You may also find that the cameras will not shoot at all in autofocus because it can't locate a focus point. So make sure you are in manual focus set at infinity.

Same thing applies for the bottom shot. Except that if in auto focus the camera will focus on the tripod head and the same thing will occur as above. Again, use manual focus at infinity.

Of course you must shoot at the same settings for ALL images. If you change aperture or shutter speed for the top or bottom there will be color imbalance and the stitched image, although properly stitched, will have a round ring of color imbalance on the floor and ceiling.

General Lee

 

 


Message posted by emarts on September-20-2005 at 11:34am
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emarts
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Thanks for the insightful info, General. I've been wrestling with my Sigma for some time now.

But if you set the camera to infinity in a small room, wouldn't that throw off your focus?


Message posted by smooth on September-20-2005 at 12:08pm
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Quite simply set your Sigma to "infinity" set your aperture to F8 and adjust your shutter speed to the correct light meter setting. This will yield good results both indoors or outdoors. Shoot RAW and minor adjustments can be done in Photoshop.

Regards, Smooth


Message posted by pixelator on September-20-2005 at 1:15pm
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pixelator
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infinity?  where might one find this setting.  also shooting with canon, photoshop unable to open that file when shooting in RAW.

Message posted by smooth on September-20-2005 at 1:58pm
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smooth
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The infinity symbol on the lens will look like a number 8 on it's side.

Photoshop CS will open RAW if Camera Raw is missing you can download it for free from www.adobe.com "search camera raw"

It is "Pre-installed" with Photoshop CS2 you use the "Image Bridge"

Be warned learning how to drive raw will take a little time. (Find a good tutorial in movie format to help yourself along)

Regards, Smooth


Message posted by pixelator on September-20-2005 at 2:26pm
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pixelator
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thanks for the location of infinity. using photoshop cs, however i think i will try to learn one thing at a time at this point.  when i figure out tw maybe then i can step up to playing with RAW files.  thanks for the input and help smooth.

regards, pixel


Message posted by makpatel on September-20-2005 at 2:57pm
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makpatel
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August-08-2005
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thanks all for replying to this thread.

awesome.



-------------
Nikon D100 | Sigma 8mm F4 FishEye | ManFrotto 303 SPH Pano-Head | ManFrotto 756B Tripod


MAK Patel
Technology Enthu
www.vox360.in

Message posted by Gen. Lee on September-23-2005 at 3:37am
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Gen. Lee
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Emarts,

Sorry for the delay.

The answer is no. What we are really talking about is the "hyperfocal distance". This is the closest distance at which the subject is sharply recorded when the focus is set at infinity.

So how close can you get to an object in  your scene and still have the object and the rest of the scene in focus? 

You must know the hyperfocal distance of your lens. This distance will change with aperture size.

I tried to ge this table in the post but it wouldnt work so below are two files. The pdf chart and the very handy excel spread sheet where you can enter any focal lenth and aperture to find any combonation of values.

http://northwestflorida.com/tdw/hyperfocal.xls

http://northwestflorida.com/tdw/hyperfocal_tw.PDF

As you can see the maximum hyperfocal distance for a 8mm lens at F2.8 is 3.75 feet. The minimum is F36 at .29 feet

Unless you are within 4 feet at F2.8 then you have no problem. As you stop down the hyperfocal distance will decrease. So only worry about it when as you say you are in a small room. I would think a bathroom with low light would pose a problem. You would have to set a large aperture and a min shutter speed to get a good exposure. If you are 2 feet from the wall at some point in the image then you will have problems. You would have to shoot at F5.6 or smaller to get less than 2 feet.

General Lee.


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