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Subject Topic: HDR or Flash for Interiors Post Reply Post New Topic
Message posted by Peanut on April-19-2008 at 8:49pm
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Peanut
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United States
March-01-2008
46 Posts

First want to start by thanking SMOOTH for two super lessons that both ran well over the two hours of time I paid for. Highly recommended.

As a newbee I am having trouble working on room interiors and balancing the window light. Creating 3 different exposured images from one RAW file (D300) and converting those 3 exposures into an HDR image does not produce good enough results for my purposes. To create an HDR image I would normally shoot 4 or 5 RAW exposures 2 stops apart, but doing that for all 8 pictures needed for a Panoweaver panorama is not only a lot of work, I'm not confident the resulting tonemapped images will blend perfectly into a panarama?  Using flash or strobes to balance the window exposure would be difficult with the Nikon 10.5 fisheye, as well as resulting in flash overlap into the next image in the panorama. What's the answer? I'll bet it's easy to those who know what they are doing - unlike me! 


Message posted by smooth on April-20-2008 at 12:25am
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smooth
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Australia
November-23-2002
5401 Posts

Hi Chris,

Firstly is is a misnomer to call any of this HDR because in fact it isn't though it seems to be the every man and his dog are calling Tone Mapping HDR. I prefer to call it IDR (Increased Dynamic Range) or WDR (Wide Dynamic Range).

Now to answer your question I should think that 3 bracketed shots should be able to cover blown out windows. Though you might very well be better off using Enfuse to do your fusing/blending. It is also possible that you need to set your average shot 1 stop down from the light meter recommendation (EV-0) and shoot your bracket shoots as wide as you can from that point. It should also be noted that the bracketing should be done via shutter speed only and not by adjusting the aperture. I would recommend you use the cameras inbuilt bracketing feature.

If you can send me a sample set of images I'm willing to take a look and attempt to blend them to see what the result can be based on a few different methods.

Regards, Smooth


Message posted by emarts on April-23-2008 at 9:04am
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emarts
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June-08-2005
188 Posts
I bracket all my shots and never use flash. I blend the images using Photomatix. I just bought the new version and it's sweet. I have no idea what all the adjustment do, but I fool around with them until I get the image I need and then save the settings for all the pics. Photomatix has two methods: Details Enhancer and Tone Compressor. The Details Enhancer gives a more surrealistic effect with saturated colors -- almost painterly. But Tone Compressor gives a more photographic effect.

Definitely try it. You can download the demo version.

Message posted by Peanut on April-24-2008 at 5:57pm
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Peanut
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United States
March-01-2008
46 Posts

For HDR (or IDR) I normally take three bracketed RAW shots 2 or 3 stops apart and have no trouble blending those into one tonemapped image using Photomatic. That's fine when only one is working with only one image.

I guess my question is - for a stitched image - do I create a tonemapped image for each of my 6 x 10.5mm shots, (a total of 18 exposures) and 2 tone mapped images for zenith and nadir (6 more exposures), finally blending those 24 exposed images down to eight and stitching those eight tonemapped HDR's with Panoweaver? I am thinking each of the eight tonemapped images could be slightly different, resulting in a strange looking final stitched image?

Or should I create 3 different stitched panoramas (one for each exposure) then blend the 3 stitched images with Photomatix blending them down to one tonemapped image? Am I making sense?  I'm not sure even I understand what I'm writing!!!

It seems each tonemapped/finished image has a slightly different look and if I used the former approach I could get a very odd looking stitched picture.  I guess the answer might be to try it both ways and see what happens?


Message posted by emarts on April-25-2008 at 11:25am
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emarts
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June-08-2005
188 Posts

I don't know if this helps, but I generate a tonemapped image for each shot. I use an 8mm Sigma fisheye, so I'm doing 4 shots around plus zenith and nadir, with 2 exposures each.

I then stitch the tomemapped images and save as a layered Photoshop file. I opne the Photoshop file and move the zenith and nadir layers to the top and then feather out all the masks accordingly. Occationally, ther will be one or two layers that look either darker or lighter than the others. In those cases, I make adjustments in Photoshop.

Here's one I just completed:
http://www.tulfra.com/one_commerce_center/3775_park.html


Message posted by 360texas on April-25-2008 at 11:41am
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360texas
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United States
June-12-2002
2240 Posts

I did take a look at your URL.  10:40am 25Apr08 Central Texas Time

Received Java Console notice below:

IE 7 and Sun Java Plug-in 1.6.0_05
Using JRE version 1.6.0_05 Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM

On Loading Tourweaver page:
Exception in thread "RefreshThread" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space

Clicking on Still Images:  Images were displayed properly

Warehouse Ceiling
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-3" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space

Floor View 1
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-3" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space

Floor View 2
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-3" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space


Floor View 3
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-3" java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space

Same for remaining views

Clicked on Front Entrance, Lobby, Floor and Loft
Received same Err but No panoramas displayed

Maybe your panoramas were not ready for viewing, but still received Err's on still imaging



-------------
/s/
Dave
Forum Moderator for
EasyPano - Panoweaver
Pano2VR


Visit 360texas.com

Message posted by Vince on April-26-2008 at 2:15pm
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Vince
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August-13-2007
194 Posts
Not to long ago I would have said "flash" because I usually find HDR (or IDR if you prefer) to "cartoonish" for my taste. I have recently found a program that looks like it will do a go job with my primary camera, but I am still unhappy with results from another camera. Which ones? Thats the point. Just because it works for me or evan for one of my cameras, does not necessarily mean that it will work for you. Download as many different programs as you can and run the same set of images through each, then shoot a different set up and try it again. I am not sure I am giving up flash (I'm running 3 fisheyes with out a N or Z) but I might change. Or not. Not sure yet.

Message posted by realtor jerry on April-26-2008 at 3:14pm
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realtor jerry
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April-22-2007
880 Posts
Vince, would you share with us what program you found?
Thanks

-------------
Nikon D300, D3s, Nikon 10.5 lens, RingT105N+Footplate+MrotatorTCPs, Giottos MT9261 Tripod, Manfrotto 410 Jr geared head.

If you know the "secret" then everyday is a good day!

Message posted by Vince on April-26-2008 at 6:57pm
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Vince
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August-13-2007
194 Posts
I didn't really "find" anything. I have tried several that other people say work the best, and I hated the results. I don't want to say XYZ-Blend doesn't work, because the truth is they didn't work for me. I am tying Xfuse, and I am liking the results from my Coolpix 3400 with fisheye images. That being said, I don't like the (non-pano) images I have used it on from my Sigma SD9 and SD14 (jpg, not RAW, Sigma RAW is an odd little beast). I wasn't trying to be secretive, just stress the point that if what you are trying doesn't work for you, don't write it off like I have been, just try other programs or settings to find a combination that does work for you. I am not sure I will switch yet from flash to HDR, but I am more open to it at this point. The two sample tours linked on the menu to the right are shot with flash. www.VinceRobertsPhotography.com

Message posted by Vince on April-28-2008 at 10:06pm
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Vince
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August-13-2007
194 Posts
O.K., this is a rough one, but might help you to decide. The first pano is "HDR" and the second is with a flash. Just tossed it on a TV skin to get it up.
Some thoughts.
1. This is a tough room to capture, the color is more accurate in the "flash" version.
2. I did some Photoshoping on both to bring out window detail.
3. The camera position was the same for both, but the lighting really changes the perceived shape of the room.
4. Yes, I know, I need to clean my lens!
5. Coolpix 5400, Nikon FC-E9. Kaidan Rotator, XFuse to blend, Panowever 5.0


HDR Vs. Flash

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