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Subject Topic: would you pay for this...? Post Reply Post New Topic
Message posted by stalwart on July-16-2008 at 11:08am
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stalwart
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January-17-2008
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Hi all

For those of you who do VT's for a living (as opposed to us who haven't got that far yet and are still practising!!), tell me what you think to my latest work, shot last Friday................

http://tinyurl.com/62aqbr

How much would you charge for a 10-scene pano + stills, etc?

If you wouldn't pay for it, why not? (i.e. - what's wrong with it!!). The panos are only 250kb for speed of download - so in full-screen, they're quite pixelated. Not bad in skin size tho'.

Is there a liimit to the physical size of the skni? Any reason why the skin templates aren't larger?

cheers
Stu


Message posted by nerjaace on July-16-2008 at 12:21pm
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Nice work Stu! I think the panos being only 250kb are very good I normally have found that they need to be about 350kb to still keep a reasonable resolution but I use a one-shot so thats probably the reason.

Price wise I am in Spain so I cannot comment on your local market. But its certainly saleable.

I find the skin size of 800x600 pretty much fills the screen so I see no need for larger.

 


Message posted by tbrusson on July-16-2008 at 1:03pm
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tbrusson
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The question is mainly a market issue rather than a quality issue :

What is the number of VR agencies in the areas (locally or/and London based which can travel), what are they charging for vr and since your example seems to deal with commercial real estate which might be better paid than regular real estate (field in which some pano photograher won't even invest time since it's not well paid at all by real estates agencies for example) it might be more rewarding.

The bottom line is how much do you charge considering the time and equipment involved, competition and the willingness of the customers to pay correctly the work.

thierry

Message posted by 360texas on July-16-2008 at 1:08pm
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Ok,  thats what I like 'constructive comments'.

IE 7 Vista ultimate, 6 mbps aDSL.

Looked at your panoramas.  All down loaded in less than 20 seconds. Page loading should be 18 seconds or less other wise your visitor will bolt to find a faster page.  Your splash hotel sign helps keep the visitor occupied while panoramas are downloading in background. 

Issues
Full screen for the most part looks ok except for noise pixels shadows  up around the ceiling/wall lines.   Full screen can see small stitching issues hallway lift lobby.  Images generally underexposed (read not well lighted) when viewed with a color calibrated 24" Samsung LCD monitor.

Panoramas are by definition wider than they are high.  A square viewing area give us the general feeling of viewing through a key hole.  I would double the current pano viewing window width.  Remember,  you are showing the clients product.  So give them a great wide view where they can see it.

Page layout should have TW automatically center in the browser window. So matter what monitor is used.. TW is parked in the middle of the monitor screen left to right.  Suggest designing around a 900 pixel wide work area.  That should fit in side older 15" monitors of 1024 wide x 768 high.  22" wide screen monitors are 1680 w x 1050 h.  24" wide screens are 1920 w x 1200 high.

What would I charge for 10 panoramas ?  Depends on the client.  Example

Hotels:

100 rooms at 80% annual occupancy rate.  Means

80 rooms are revenue generating at $100/ or $8,000 night.
20 rooms at $100 = $2,000 loss each night.

By taking panoramas you can improve the occupancy rate by only 5 % to 85% it means income is increased to $8,500. per night.

Extended logic - Panorama usually last for 5 years or until property is remodeled.

Year 1
With Panos $8500 x 365      = $3,102,500.
No pano's $8,000 x 365 days = 2,920,000
increase $185,000 year 1  less your project  $5,000 panorama +TW page = $180,000.

Year 2, 3, 4, 5 = + 4 years 185,000 = $740,000 and  Year 1 + 180,000 = $920,000 total.  OR just a little under $1 million dollars increase bottom line revenue for the hotel profits.

I am only suggesting a project price of $5,000.  The hotel is making a little under $1,000,000 on your panoramas.  Maybe $5,000 is a bargin for the hotel advertising.  So only charge a small  1% (.01 percent) of the total additional 5 year revenue... say $10,000.

I am only a suggesting a pricing technique.

Here is a screen capture on a 24" monitor

 



-------------
/s/
Dave
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Message posted by stalwart on July-17-2008 at 9:23am
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stalwart
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January-17-2008
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Dave
thanks for taking the time to reply in detail - and I take all your comments constructively on board.

I agree there are minor stitching issues - can't seem to get a perfect line up often (using NN3 / Canon 450D / Sigma 8mm f3.5) 4 shots round, zenith @ 60 degrees and nadir). Am considering getting the 360Precision Absolute for my body / lens but the price tag is a little too expensive for me at the moment.

I agree the panos do look underexposed - will have a look at lightening them in PS3. Any good tips / tutorials to do this without going back to start with re-exposing the RAW images?

Thanks for the recommendation re: doubling pano width - agree a square viewing window is a little "keyhole-ish".

How do I make TW open in centre of window, and not top-left?

Stu


Message posted by 360texas on July-17-2008 at 11:14am
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Welcome Stu,

Might be better to bring ALL 5 raw images into Adobe camera RAW converter and  white balance correct all 5 in batch [select ALL] then make your changes.  You can adjust the exposure there too along with fixing the chromatic abberation and vignetting.  THEN save all 4 of them out on a single click 'save'.   CS3 On the ACR 4.4.1 LENS tab for the Sigma 8mm Chromatic abberation and Vignetting  I use these values

-44, +13, ALL, +100, +12.

Buying a new pan head might be done later, but first I would make sure you have the exact 'no parallax point'.   Then I would rotate the lens UP at 90  [not 60]  and shoot straight up on the 4th clickstop marker.

After stitching an equirectangular image... In panoweaver 5 suggest trying to convert it to a cube.  That flattens the image [makes curved lines straight] save it as a cube - then open this cubed one in photoshop.  zoom in to the zenith and nadir areas look and repair those small stitch issues.  Then convert cubed back to equirectangular image.

How to deal with the lighting is interesting.  In photoshop try using

image | adjustment | shadow/ highlight tool.  What this tool does is it evaluates and locks in the highlights [ceiling wall lights] and then gives you  an opportunity to brighten the shadows with out blowing out the highlights. 

Example,  beach, persons face in foreground - camera exposes for the bright sandy beach area behind the persons face.  Result is properly exposed background sandy beach area  and persons face is dark shadowed.  Shadow highlight freezes the beach exposure and allows you to brighten the persons face.

I think centering the TW block is more of an html page code function.

I revisited your TW page and right mouse clicked "View Source"

There I found the html code that is placing your TW in the upper left corner.  The body code is saying that the margins are around the TW block are all 0  or at 0 pixels.  So left and top margin are a tight fit at the monitors edges.

<body leftMargin="0" topMargin="0" rightMargin="0" bottomMargin="0">

Im no html expert, and maybe someone else knows a better way but you can try replacing that code snippet with

<body topMargin="0">
<center>

Just a few thoughts 



-------------
/s/
Dave
Forum Moderator for
EasyPano - Panoweaver
Pano2VR


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Message posted by RuddersUK on July-18-2008 at 10:58am
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Nice panos Stu, but i think your UI def needs some work for commercial viability, but I suppose it depends on what your integrating it into etc.

Dave as ever a fountain of knowledge!.. oh btw Dave back in Madrid in a few weeks.. would be nice to catch up again! lol!

Message posted by 360texas on July-18-2008 at 11:54am
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Ok,  now I know who RuddersUK is.  Yes certainly when you want to talk.. hollar.

-------------
/s/
Dave
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Message posted by stalwart on July-24-2008 at 3:59am
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Quote: Originally posted by RuddersUK on July-18-2008
Nice panos Stu, but i think your UI def needs some work for commercial viability, but I suppose it depends on what your integrating it into etc.

Dave as ever a fountain of knowledge!.. oh btw Dave back in Madrid in a few weeks.. would be nice to catch up again! lol!

Hi Rudders - forgive me, but what is "UI"....?

I've altered the highlights in CS2 thanks Dave for the help. And I've changed the script to centre the CT. It centres on my machine at home, but not my one at work......
This is only a test, and not got the time to start at the beginning to re-do the panos from scratch so for now, as an excersie point of view, will stick with the PTGui mis-alignments mentioned. What do you now think?
cheers all

Stu


Message posted by stalwart on July-24-2008 at 4:00am
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Quote: Originally posted by RuddersUK on July-18-2008
Nice panos Stu, but i think your UI def needs some work for commercial viability, but I suppose it depends on what your integrating it into etc.

Dave as ever a fountain of knowledge!.. oh btw Dave back in Madrid in a few weeks.. would be nice to catch up again! lol!

Hi Rudders - forgive me, but what is "UI"....?

I've altered the highlights in CS2 thanks Dave for the help. And I've changed the script to centre the CT. It centres on my machine at home, but not my one at work......here's the 2nd attempt:

http://www.threesixtytours.co.uk/colmore_plaza/360imagery_colmore_plaza.html

This is only a test, and not got the time to start at the beginning to re-do the panos from scratch so for now, as an excersie point of view, will stick with the PTGui mis-alignments mentioned. What do you now think?
cheers all

Stu


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